The Ultimate Fighter

**Monkeyhead** · March 28th, 2006, 06:10 PM

I think it will end with a ref stoppage. I think Royce will be a bloody mess from the Ground n Pound he will recieve. Or possibly getting choked out.

**Monkeyhead** · March 28th, 2006, 06:14 PM

I didn't know thta was Akebono's real name. Guess I learned something new today. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Yoshida choked him silly and Royce was trying to say he was not out. Whether he was or not, don't really matter because he was about to be. The Sak fight was great, it lasted forever but it was nice to see Royce get owned like that.

**Gotch** · March 28th, 2006, 06:20 PM

Sakuraba clowning to the crowd while giving Royce his back without any concern was priceless.

**Monkeyhead** · March 28th, 2006, 06:31 PM

I've got the video of that fight at the apt., Bobby let me borrow it.

**imported_biggamesjames** · March 28th, 2006, 07:16 PM

"I went over to Sherdog and found that Royce is 2-1-2 since his UFC days. He has beaten two jokes, Rowan and Takada and has drawn with Yosida the Olympic Judo player who had no MMA experience and of course got his backside completely handed to him by Sakuraba the only real fighter with experience that he has faced."

Yeah but the guy was in his prime during those UFC days. You are talking about a guy who is now 40 years old and 12 to 14 years removed from his peak competing age. He was undefeated in 12 UFC fights with all of his 11 wins coming buy way of submission against some quality competition such as Shamrock, Kimo, Pat Smith, Keith Hackney and Dan Severn. His only loss in UFC was a forfeit in the next fight after he was injured against Kimo. He had only been in the octagon once in 6 years when he faced Sakuraba at age 34 in the Pride Grand Prix Finals. He is 1-0-1 in K-1 in the last 2 years.

**Gotch** · March 28th, 2006, 08:08 PM

James, I have to disagree strongly about the level of competition in those early UFC's. Some of the guys were very tough but none really understood the game they were involved in.

Dan Severn was a very good wrestler but had no knowledge whatsoever about submission or striking at that time. In fact it's a well known story that as he was leaving the octagon an old shootfighting coach asked him why he hadn't at least attempted one of the many triangle escapes? Dan, who has a very good sense of humor replied, "hell I hadn't even heard of a triangle choke until I was in one."

Kimo was a pure brawler at the time with no real training of any kind at all. This according to him. He has since become fairly skilled both on the ground and on the feet but knew next to nothing when he fought Royce, which is just the way Royce and Rorion wanted it.

Pat Smith had a fake won loss record and no ground skills. He wasn't even a world class striker as claimed. He was a decent striker but not world class by any standard. He knew a few standing submissions but nothing else.

Keith Hackney was, is and forever will be a joke. Yet he landed some decent shots on Royce. This isn't a testament to his striking skills but to Royce's total lack of takedown knowledge.

Ken Shamrock was the nearest thing to a real fighter he faced and even he wasn't use to these rules. Something alot of people don't know is that the vast majority of Ken's fights in Japan were works (fake). Ken had been trained by people who had been trained by Karl "Gotch" Istaz for a "hard worked" style of pro wrestling. Not real fighting.

The early days of the UFC were a sham when looked at closely. Rorion hand picked every fighter and there are numerous stories of him turning away fighters he feared could beat Royce.

This is actually the way the Gracies have operated for decades. They claimed to have been unbeaten for 50+ years when in fact Helio lost several times. Once to a totally untrainer fighter. Then there was the awfull spanking he took form Kimura the Japanese Judo legend. A good bit of video footage of that match still exists. It ain't pretty, up to and including Kimura breaking Helio's arm after passing his guard like he was a 7 year old.

Wladek Zybyszko an aging B level pro wrestler from the early days of wrestling when most could wrestle for real went a 15 minute draw with Helio. The point being that all the trully great wrestlers of Zybyszko's era had soundly beaten him when it came to a shoot (real match).

**imported_biggamesjames** · March 28th, 2006, 08:25 PM

I know alot of people don't like the Gracie's because of some of the reasons you mentioned but Royce was the real deal in the style of fighting that the early UFC's deployed. Yeah they may not have fought all comers but to my understanding the early UFC was a tournament style competition in which you had entries from all styles of fighting and you had to win to keep going to the next round. In my opinion it was much more entertaining back then because you didn't have rounds and you didn't have judges decisions and you didn't have weight class and gloves...it was two guys just getting in there no holds barred and who ever survives wins. That was more of a test of raw all out fighting competition than what you have now in my opinion. I miss the "no rules" style of action.

**Gotch** · March 28th, 2006, 08:33 PM

I know what you're saying, and I liked the tournament format as a fan as well. As a coach I don't like it as most fighter don't either.

The problem concerning the early UFC's that didn't really come to light for some time is that a number of well rounded fighters who did understand the game (unlike the people Roiron picked) were turned away.

Gene LeBell has a couple of good stories of this type. One was a middle eastern pro wrestler who held a couple of world strength records, had been in 3 olympics (winning 2 gold's), and a good knowledge of old-school carnival style wrestling submissions was flatly turned down by Rorion to fight in UFC 2. Wonder why?

**slayer44** · March 28th, 2006, 08:47 PM

i seen royce fight shamrock the first time it lasted about 45 seconds.total domination by royce,the next time they fought i believe it was ufc 6 they fought to a draw,shamrock was afraid to do anything.i hope royce beats matt hughes,but i dont see it happening,age catches up to you.he probably should just keep on being retired.

**Monkeyhead** · March 29th, 2006, 02:25 PM

I will agree and disagree with some things you stated. I do like the tournament format, but you look at how many fighters get injured and can't continue. The rules are there for a purpose, if not for rules there would be no UFC. Gloves are there to protect hands and also they only help a punch more than hurt it. Also a fighters peak is probably more in his early to mid 30's.
Royce may be the worst fighter in the family. He has very little standup ability, and his ground game is not that great in my opinion. Watch the first Pride Grand Prix and you can watch him get spanked at his own game, and at his peak. He was only in the UFC because his brother Rickson refused to work for peanuts.